Westland Whirlwind

ref my last post. The wing bombs. To carry 250 lb. Bombs.
I designed the carriers, a nasty design problem. I solved it and got a raise for doing so.
Great to read that they were put to good use.
Walter.

reply

Just to update people.
1) I have now illustrated what a Merlin powered Mk2 would likely have looked like.
www.screenworx.net /Stuart /Portfolio /Pages /AviationArt.html#4
2) A documentary is being produced about the aircraft by Jim Munro who has found some very interesting information, pilot input and original film. If anyone has any information about the aircraft or links that may be useful. Please contact me if you feel you have anything of value.
3) 'Welland' - there was a welkin which used aspects of the whirlwind design and was a high alt fighter but few were made. There was also a RR (Whittle) Welland jet engine which powered the Meteor. Are you confusing the two?
4) 'Whirlwind Build' - There were plan to build one that would have taxied but not flown but it seems to have stalled possibly through a death.
However I discovered that a part replica of one is being built and good progress is being made at Fenland & West Norfolk Aviation Museum by Ray Wood. A few pics here forum.keypublishing.co.uk /showthread.php?t=92250

Hope that helps

reply

I have completed the 2nd phase of my static replica build ,and this is now at the City of Norwich Aviation Museum Horsham St Faith. The section at the Fenland Museum will be moved to Norwich in the next few weeks ,and hopefully with a bit of " Jiggery" both sections can be joined together.

reply

Is my memory playing tricks ? Help! I'm sure I once saw a photo of a Westland Welland . I also recall, it had a prototype roundal. Am I dreaming or was there , indeed,a Westland prototype of that name ?

reply

Hi Dez, sounds as if You are building a flying model?. I have just built a 1 /72 scale Airfix starter kit but You wouldn't believe it, I somehow lost the cockpit canopy so I now have a fully painted Westland Whirwind minus a cockpit canopy. I contacted Airfix asking for a replacement but no joy yet. What a shame it wasn't a very successful aeroplane as it was designed around the wrong engine but as You say a nice looking aircraft.

Regards Tony.

reply

I made one of these as a model a few months ago,for my son. Great looking plane. I've been reading a lot about the Whirlwind and its demise. What I would love to know is anyone out there building one....a real one. Could it be done? Does anyone know? In the mean time I'll have to settle with my sons model.

reply

I have just found this site and I would just like to say that My father Edward John Straw (Jack), Joined Westland Aircraft before the War as an Aeronautical Engineer after being invalided out of the RAF. He trained at RAF Halton but Diabetese ended His Airforce career. He loved Westlands and was to work there for most of His career with only a brief spell at EMI (Wells,som.)but returned until His retirement. He was to work on the Lysander, Whirlwind, Wyvern and probably many others and on into the Helicopter era. After the War Many Lysanders went to the Turkish Airforce in Crates and My Father went out there to Assist the Turks with the assembly. After the shop floor He went into Contracts and various other office jobs also with the Hyperbaric Chamber Section of Westlands. I do find it sad in some respects that some of the Aircraft that He worked on did not forfill their expectations. But I think His favourite Aircraft was the Lysander and that excelled itself. I only wish He were still with us as I would like to hear His thoughts about the Aircraft that He was so proud off, as a kid I don't think the subject ever came up. I still have His Discharge Papers and his application papers for a position at Westlands Aircraft. My apologies for eulogising about Him but I just thought that he deserved a mention Here.

Many Thanks. Anthony J Straw.

reply

I have always had a soft spot for the Whirlwind. A fantastic platform /airframe, which with more powerful and reliable engines (not to mention hydraulics!) could have been one of the best fighters of WWII. It was apparently a great aircraft to fly, a real pilots aircraft! What devastating firepower was concentrated in its nose which could bus any ground target as well as air target. Only the Mosquito had a greater concentration of firepower in its nose with 4,20mm cannons and four machine guns. What a missed opportunity!!

reply

Yes the one that survived was at Yeovil where it had been sent to Westland for repair. It was used for some time but then buried under the runway around wars end where it still rests minus engines and various parts removed beforehand. There are projects to build one. I stumbled across this site to gain information so that I can illustrate a 'Westland Mk2' with Merlins having already done a Mk1. Imagine how that aircraft would have performed truly a great aircraft in waiting.

reply

My late uncle, Sqn /Ldr Thomas P Pugh,DFC was Commanding Officer of 263 Squadron in August 1941 and is I believe credited with advocating the fitting of bomb racks to the Whirlwind. I have a BBC recording from January 1942 of uncle Tom giving an account of a sortie (pre-bomb racks I think!)to a German airfield in coastal France. This describes his flight strafing and destroying a number of JU-88's on the ground. Uncle Tom was later W /Cmdr with 182 Squadron operating Typhoons and was MIA /KIA on 2 August 1943 divebombing a destroyer in Dunkirk harbour. I have a copy of the page from the Operations Record Book giving details of this sortie. My father Sqn /Ldr Robert M Pugh AFC RAF (Ret'd) (who flew "Wimpeys" with Coastal Command), now 89, has yet to hear this recording, which I have managed to extract from the old 78rpm record my father had kept and transfer to a cd for him for Christmas. I wonder what he will think hearing his late brother's voice sixty six years on? John Mclure might well have known uncle Tom and it would be interesting to hear if there are indeed former comrades of unlce Tom's out there. I would be pleased to hear from anyone in this regard.

reply

Having completed a tour of operations in the Whirlibomber in WW2 with RAF 137 and 263 Sqds I assure that this was a great aircraft to fly. With the 4 20 mm cannons in the nose it was tremendous against shipping,train busting etc
It could have been further developed but Lord Beaverbrooke, the minister of aircraft production made the decision to turn maximum production into the spitfire which was a proven machine with obvious potential for development. So the Westland Co was ordered to build Seafires a naval version of the Spitfire.

reply

It was the only British fighter that could handle the initial Fw190 "Butcher bird", albeit only up to "Angels 15" where the power fell off on the Peregrines.
Lost out due to lack of development re engines. Peregrine was final update of Kestral, but failure of the proposd RR X-engine for the Manchester led to the 4 Merlin Lancaster and full shutdown of engine production for the Whirlwind, as the X-engine was to have been 2 Peregrine crankcases, coupled, and this failure doomed the best fighter britain had as it was too small for Merlins - see Welkin, aka MkII -
and two Merlins was TWO Spitfires or Hurricanes @ a time they needed every one of those that they could build, so the Whirlwind lost out on a whole slew of fronts, doing remarkably well for the (lack) of development they had for a remarkably long service time. You can see the same wing planform in the EE Canberra, also a Petter design, which also was a remarkably efficient and long lasting aircraft.

reply

And compare wing thickness with the Gloster F.9 /37. Spitfire thin, fast versus Beaufighter thick, slow.

reply

One of the greatest "alternative history" airplanes of all time.It could have been a DH Hornet in 1940. Drop a Heinkel in a single burst. Cover Dunkirk and Dieppe without running out of gas,sorry, petrol. Use the Merlins from all the unbuilt Battles and Defiants. Needed bigger magazines, 150 /200 rpg. Coulda been a contender.

reply

Westland did want to build a MkII with Merlin engines as an escort fighter, but due to bombers going to night ops it was not needed.

reply

Westland did want to build a MkII with Merlin engines as an escort fighter, but due to bombers going to night ops it was not needed.

reply

Just imagine what an interceptor this would make with a pair of Merlin 61's powering this aircraft. How about a Bristol Centaurus powered post D-Day fighter-bomber. A fine airframe in search of an engine.

reply

Did any of the Whirlwinds go down in fresh water, i.e. a lake and thus could be retrieved? How many of the planes were lost in combat verses being scrapped? I think I recall that one had a landing gear collaspe during operations and was sent back to the factory for repairs which were done. The plane was then scrapped just after the war.

reply

I would like to know the full combat record of this aircraft,eg how many airframes existed after it´s combat service finished and how they were disposed of.

reply

Most of them were scrapped at 5MU - RAF Kemble in the early 1970s.

reply